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Ottawa Fiero Club Forum  |  General  |  Project Work Logs  |  Topic: The slowest L67 build in history « previous next »
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Author Topic: The slowest L67 build in history  (Read 6771 times)
dguy
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2006, 09:28:37 am »

New bearings are here; paying for them yesterday was amusing.  Someone pulled the plug on the subdivision which GBS resides in just as we got there, so I paid for the order in the dark.   Cheesy

My current opponent:  dead imageshack link removed, see attachments

It seems that there was a design change, likely between the Duke 4-speeds and the 3.65.

Early four-speeds had separate 3rd and 4th output gears, and the gears and LH bearing were simply pressed on.  3rd gear may have also been pinned by a snap ring; can't remember at the moment.

The 3.65's are a one-piece 3/4 output gear assembly, and combined with the bearing are all held in place with this sucker.  12-point, T-55 or larger, left-hand thread.

Try finding a torx bit larger than a T-50 over-the-counter.   Roll Eyes  Princess Auto claims to have up to a T-60 in stock, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  If that isn't the correct size, I may have to ambush a roving Snap-on truck.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:10:26 pm by dguy » Logged

1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
dguy
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2006, 06:34:14 am »

The side & spider gears came back last week; what you see here, is the diff. with the gears & Phantom Grip unit installed.  The red smudges are assembly lube, not blood.  Wink

dead imageshack link removed, see attachments

I made a few comments about the cryo process near the end of this thread.

Installing the PG unit is dead simple.  Remove the pinion gear pin, slide the unit in to place, replace the pin and pop off a pair of clips which kept the plates compressed for the install.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:11:19 pm by dguy » Logged

1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
dguy
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 08:32:23 am »

Quote
The other three (output shaft + input shaft tail), are seated in blind holes. The tool which comes to mind would be a slide hammer with an appropriate sized claw to hook the "back" of the race, and pull it out. Is this the best way to go about it, or is there something better?


The case halves are at a local tranny shop to have three final races removed, and the replacement bearing set should arrive today or tomorrow.

Actually no, they're not at a shop.  Smiley  I cancelled the shop work after finding what I thought was the tool for the job at Princess Auto, however it can only deal with races with an inside diameter of up to 1.75".  These are closer to 2.25".   Sad

So now I'm busy making my own puller for these races.   Undecided
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1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
GoFast88
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2006, 12:05:33 pm »

Sounds like between the 2 of us (and all of the club members) there is no tool that we can "aquire" to get the job done. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2006, 12:37:08 pm »

Sounds like between the 2 of us (and all of the club members) there is no tool that we can "aquire" to get the job done. 

Different beasts.  Smiley

The T-60 bit you leant me was to R&R the 12-pointed fastener shown 4 posts up.  With the help of that tool, I was able to install the roller & cage "halves" of all six bearings that weekend. Afro

The bearing races which sit in blind holes are a whole new ball game.

I've since discovered that the "official" tool from Kent Moore is $118 US, and is simply a pair of adjustable jaws which one attaches to the end of a slide hammer.  The jaws slip in to a narrow gap between the back of the race and the transmission case, and a few yanks later...

I have the tool partially done now; will post photos of it and the races once complete.  Nothing fancy...  just a modified leg & screw-type gear puller.  The legs will be ground down to fit the back of the races, and the original worm gear is being replaced with a bolt whose thread matches that of my slide hammer.
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1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
dguy
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2006, 07:39:03 am »

An example of the blind races.  These two are in the left-most half of the case when installed in the car.  The race on the left is for the tail of the output shaft, the one on the right is for the tail of the input shaft.  The other case half has a third blind race for the head of the output shaft.
dead imageshack link removed, see attachments
In this photo, the one on the right has already been removed along with the oil deflector which sits behind it.  The oil deflectors are a thin plastic similar to PVC; between the deflector and the relatively thin aluminum behind the race, using a worm gear-type puller is undesireable.

The modified tool... as I said before, it's nothing exciting.  I replaced the worm gear of a 4" puller with a bolt which matches the thread of my slide hammer, and ground down the ends of the legs until they were thin enough to fit behind the race and had a similar curvature.
dead imageshack link removed, see attachments
It works, but its awkward.  The legs of the puller have a tendency to retract after a few pulls, regardless of how tight the retaining nuts are.  If I ever do this again, I'm going to notch the inside edge of each leg, and use a small turnbuckle or something similar to prevent the legs from collapsing.

In any case...  the bearings are roughly 75% done now.  The next step is to determine the appropriate shim thickness before installing the races in right-hand case half.  Even at this early stage, I can notice an improvement in how well the shafts & diff. sit & spin in their respective locations.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:14:06 pm by dguy » Logged

1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2006, 06:20:47 am »

Shimming the bearings requires a set of telescoping gauges and spacers, which can with some patience be found on eBay.  Assembling the gauge set is simple.  The bearing races are put in place over the rollers, the telescoping shafts are placed between the races and the case, and the assembly is bolted together with spacers between the case halves.
dead imageshack link removed, see attachments

Once assembled and twirled around a bit to ensure that everything is seated nicely, gaps at the base of the telescoping shafts indicate the required shim thickness.
dead imageshack link removed, see attachments

There's a small amount of "by feel" involved however.  Measuring the gaps is a simple feeler gauge task, however the actual shim sizes needed are "1 size smaller" than the measured gap on the differential and output shaft, and "2 sizes smaller" than the measured gap on the input shaft.  As far as I can tell, 1 size = 0.001".

It's trickier obtaining the shims than than it is using the gauge set.  Supposedly a 5-speed equipped 2000 Chrysler Cirrus uses the same bearings, however none of the dealers I spoke with (including their tranny "experts") knew what I was talking about.   Huh

Since the new shim thicknesses I needed were all less than the shims which came out, I had a local machine shop grind the old ones down.

The result, when the input shaft is spun by hand, is so smooth by comparison to the tranny's original state that I almost want to put this behind the 2.8 and do it all over again.   Wink
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:16:49 pm by dguy » Logged

1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
2ML67
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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2006, 09:49:26 am »

Don I have two spare Fiero 410 four speeds laying around not being used wiould the parts from one of them be of use to you. Dan
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dguy
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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2006, 09:54:55 am »

Don I have two spare Fiero 410 four speeds laying around not being used wiould the parts from one of them be of use to you. Dan

No thanks...  I already have two parts trannies to stub my toes on.  Smiley
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1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2006, 11:07:56 am »

Lousy 410 four speeds can't even give the darn things away. Dan
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dguy
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2006, 05:59:28 am »

On with the show...

Sealed, re-assembled, some new external seals, bushings & other hardware, and bolted down on the cradle.  Oh and some media-blasting followed up by rattle cans..   Smiley

dead imageshack link removed, see attachments

Something which may be of interest to other 4-speed owners:
dead imageshack link removed, see attachments
...I was fortunate enough to get my hands on the prototype of a repair piece for the shifter cable bracket, courtsey of Rodney Dickman.  It's a steel bolt-on bracket, intended for situations where the "ears" on the original bracket have broken off.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:19:56 pm by dguy » Logged

1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
fiero308
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2006, 07:10:58 am »

well I'm going to watch this if for no other reason to see what other colours you come up with!!
Are you collecting spray cans by any chance? I'll try to save some for you LOL

keep pluggin' Don!

gp
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dguy
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2006, 12:09:53 pm »

The finall installment for this stage of the project:

dead imageshack link removed, see attachments

Excuse the washed out photo.  I must really rememmber to use the flash when Mr. Sunshine is pretending to be a backlight.   Roll Eyes

Transaxle, cradle, knuckles, axles, and control arms assembled and ready....



...to be covered up and ignored for a year or two.   Undecided  't is time to dig a car that's older than me out from under a pile of accumulated odds and ends, and see if I remember how to put it back together.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 04:21:03 pm by dguy » Logged

1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
dguy
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2007, 09:40:54 am »

Circumstances change, priorities change, and I've been having some thoughts lately so I decided to blow the electron dust off this thread and share them.  Smiley

My original intent was to build the engine up to a silly level before installing it.  The kind of silly which shears OEM axles and cracks transaxle cases.  To ease the hit to the wallet, the engine build was going to be a multi-year affair which wouldn't wouldn't be united with the car until it was complete.

All the while I'd be driving and maintaining the 2.8.

...then something happened.  Well a few things really, but two "somethings" stick out in my mind as being the most significant.

We bought a house.  The silly things always require some level of maintenance, not to mention that we purchased it knowing that some basement renovations would be required before it became ideal.  Heck I've already started to transform a relatively vacant part of the utility/laundry room in to a pantry and somewhere to hide our network server.  What can I say; the garage is currently unheated and as Gary can attest to, a bloody mess.  Framing, plastering, and wiring are my outlet for the moment.   Cheesy  In any case one of the effects of purchasing the house is the lengthening of the engine build's timeline.

The other "something" happened at the last GTG at Dan's place.

He let me take his coupe out for a spin.

I've always considered the 2.8 to be moderately lively for its age, but as we all know they do run out of steam quickly when pushed.  The 3800 which was in Dan's car at the time was unmolested save for swap necessities, and it was one hell of a lot of fun.  I particularly enjoyed thinking "hmmm, that certainly didn't take long to get up to 80", but then wondering why I was overtaking nearly every Tom, Dick & Harry on the road.  It was then that I noticed that he has an imperial speedo in the car--80 was not the 80 which I thought it was.  Give the go pedal a bit of a squeeze, the blower starts to howl, and the needle on the dash climbs quickly & smoothly.  Cool.  Cool


I've been thinking about the project a little differently since then, and ya know what?  Funk it.  I don't wanna drive the 2.8 any more.  Not to mention that it reduces the workload if I'm not trying to build one engine while maintaining another.

Other than the necessary swap alterations, maintenance items which go with a 300,000km powerplant, and a bit of detailing, she's getting installed unmolested for now.

I still intend to build it up well beyond stock however, one modification at a time.  This is likely going to mean multiple cradle-drops, but what the hell.  Once you've done one...   Grin


I have to balance this against putting the '68 Stang back together, but with any luck there'll be one more L67-powered Fiero on the road in time for the 25th.
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1984: Track car project.
1985 SE: Dead 2.8, stalled L67 swap.
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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2007, 11:23:24 am »

Sorry Don but I did try to warn you that driving a 3800SC powered Fiero quickly becomes an adiction. If there is any thing you need for the project just give me a call or send me a message. Dan
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