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dguy
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« on: August 13, 2009, 10:59:08 am »

Has anyone who has attended shows lately either had a run-in with, or witnessed people being harassed by the MOE?

I have an interesting column from a local paper at home; need to scan or transcribe it.  It sounds as though the Ministry of Environment has been stalking the odd car club event lately, and going to town with the ticket book for emissions equipment in non-OEM condition.

...naturally the MOE & attending police vehicles are left idling on the curb while this is taking place.   Roll Eyes
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Gizmo
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 02:08:51 pm »

Heard of one guy who was written up for swapping out the original engine, replaced with efi and it ran cleaner but was not factory with original smog equipment.  How the hell do they even know what came factory in something from 68....  oh, no pcv and no air pump....what if it had the emission delete option!  When I told this last week also heard a coil fell under this for another unfortunate individual but find it hard to believe.  In any case what gives them the right to decide, complete BS!  Angry  Emission exempt, means just that!  Just wait, I suspect if this keeps up it'll get taken too far, some MOE sap will get run over or have their brake lines cut, sugar in the tank.....
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 02:48:15 pm »

Heard from a friend a few weeks ago that he was sitting around at a Timmy's with a few other car guys when two cruisers and an MTO car pulled in, blocked them where they were parking and started telling every one to open up the hoods.
My buddy told them to go blow them selves and ended up calling his friend with a tow truck to take his car home, of the other people most got tickets for things as simple as missing breather vent hoses all the way up to non factory cats and other exhaust components.
From what I was told they only checked cars older then 88 that no longer get e-tests done regularly.
I got stopped at a spot check last Friday night coming home from the stock car races and told them to go screw them selves as I was not opening my deck lid with out them having a ligit reason. Then told them to shove a tester in the tail pipes to test for them selves. Should have seen the look on the guys face when it passed easily. My response to him was that not all cars are modified and some of us take great pride in maintaining our cars in perfect factory condition. Dan
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dguy
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 07:37:14 pm »

Heard of one guy who was written up for swapping out the original engine, replaced with efi and it ran cleaner but was not factory with original smog equipment.

There's an interesting line in the article I read, having to do with the "hot rod" (i.e. non-OEM drivetrain) designation vs. smog gear.  It takes what you wrote above Nick, and reverses it in a way that's both sound in principle yet utterly ridiculous in how it is not only legal, but totally FUBARs the purpose of the regulations.


Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against minimizing the crap that's in the exhaust.  ...but if what's coming out of the tail pipe meets or exceeds the standards for the model year of the vehicle then it shouldn't bloody well matter what's under the hood!

If I can't get that article scanned and maintain a readable resolution I'll transcribe the thing.  Gimme a few days...   Wink  It really is worth the read.  Nick, Gary, & Chris... I imagine that you all receive the EMC.  It was the "Car Counsellor" section from the issue one week back.


I got stopped at a spot check last Friday night coming home from the stock car races and told them to go screw them selves as I was not opening my deck lid with out them having a ligit reason. Then told them to shove a tester in the tail pipes to test for them selves. Should have seen the look on the guys face when it passed easily. My response to him was that not all cars are modified and some of us take great pride in maintaining our cars in perfect factory condition. Dan

Oh please tell me that was the L67-swapped car!
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 07:58:56 pm »

My daughter says to me but Daddy didn't you change the engine in this car like the other one as we drive away from the spot check.
My reply was hush now we do not want the nice officer to hear you, should of opened her up a little as I was driving away but figured it would not help any and I like the fact that the cops in the area do not know my car yet. Dan
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Kevin
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2009, 11:55:20 am »


Taken from the online version of the EMC

link

Murphy's Law rears its large head during vehicle stops

Posted Jul 30, 2009
By Brian Turner


Several e-mails came across my e-desk this week that proved my own version of Murphy's Law, just when you thought bureaucrats couldn't get any worse, they do. On July 15 a group of car enthusiasts driving those iconic heartthrob Corvettes were on a local tour of the St. Lawrence Seaway near Brockville when lo and behold they came upon a group of police cruisers pulling over autos in what looked like a R.I.D.E. program.

But it turned out one of those cruisers belonged to the Ontario Ministry of the Environment and instead of looking for tipsy drivers, the police and the MOE officials were on the hunt for emission violators. Were they performing breathalyzer tests on tailpipes? No, the MOE cop was lifting the hoods of vehicles and peering under the chassis' and referring to an official looking manual and directing the police to hand out tickets in the amount of $365 for anyone with a vehicle that had any part of its original emission control system removed or modified with no regard to whether or not such modifications were causing emission problems. These same pollution police have been reported at local car show and shines and cruise nights performing similar persecutions. While I have always been a big supporter of improving our road-side environment, these pencil necks are picking on the wrong crowd!

Anyone who knows even a miniscule amount of anything about classic car owners, restorers and hot-rod enthusiasts knows for the most part these vehicles only operate for a few kilometers each week for about eight or 10 weeks a year (some only travel the road on trailers).

With little exception their owners keep them in top condition both mechanically and appearance-wise and if anyone did bother to do an exhaust gas analysis on these chromed wonders they would find them emitting at or below what they were originally designed to do when they rolled off the assembly line. So as a rule their collective emissions don't even create a microscopic blip on the environmental radar. Many of these cars no longer have the original engine as their owners invest heavily to improve reliability and performance with better designs and engineering.

At this point e-mails between motor-heads are flying and chat room forums are buzzing with this news and it seems that many classic owners won't be travelling to cruise nights or car shows in Eastern Ontario for the rest of the season for fear of the MOE squad, and that's a real shame. These events sponsor a variety of charities in our area, not to mention boosting tourism and the local economy as well as providing a welcome reminder of days of youth and simpler times and do so in an environmentally responsible manner. I did take the time to contact a media rep from the MOE who simply regurgitated the policy lines about enforcement and responsibility but couldn't provide any justification of their actions in terms of greenhouse gases removed, or serious criminals brought to justice.

What is entirely gob smacking about all this is that the new Drive Clean emission test legislation exempts a vehicle from bi-annual tests if it is classified as a 'hot-rod' due to the installation of an engine that wasn't offered by the auto maker for that particular year and model. So if I went out and bought a 1996 Mustang and replaced the original V6 engine with a big block V8 from, say, 1959, I could merrily cruise the roads 365 days a year and pollute to my heart's content as long as my new power-plant had all the emission controls that it came with in 1959, or in other words, nothing. But if a fuel sipping Mazda Miata owner swapped his or her original air breather for a cold air intake system (which improves combustion and lowers emissions) they'd be subject to a fine from the MOE.

And just to add the icing to the cake on this story, one of our hapless Corvette owners who got caught in the sting in Brockville noted that for the entire 45 minutes they were waiting to be processed, the MOE cruiser with its V8 engine, was idling merrily along burning gas and going nowhere and as anyone in the auto industry will tell you, no vehicle when idling has an emission system in operation. I wonder if that pencil-neck wrote himself a ticket?

If you've got an opinion on this please let me know and I'll forward it off to the MOE.

In the mean time if you want to see some of the best built and restored classics before they hit the endangered list check out the AutoMotion Car Show at Block Island in Brockville on Sunday, Aug. 2 (who knows maybe the MOE will show up and you'll have a chance to personally give them your opinion). And on Tuesday, Aug. 4, the British will invade Kanata's Hazeldean Mall Cruise Night with the arrival of the Ottawa Jaguar Club.

If you have any questions, opinions, or stories on anything automotive please drop me a line, (By email to emc@perfprint.ca listing 'Question for the Car Counselor' on the subject line or by post to Record News Communications, 5 Lorne St., P.O. Box 158, Smiths Falls, Ont. K7A 4T1).

Yours in Service,

Brian Turner


« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 11:58:48 am by Kevin » Logged
aaron88
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 12:05:11 am »

From what I understand and have been tested to, is any vehicle carrying an VIN number dating 1988 or newer registered as a "Hot Rod" is subject to 1980 emissions standards test.  As my vehicle is and passes every two years.  No cat required.

Aaron

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dguy
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2009, 06:48:16 pm »

Thanks Kevin.  This was the line (?) which particularly amused me...  It's perhaps a bit unrealistic as far as examples go, but it makes a good point as far as I'm concerned...


So if I went out and bought a 1996 Mustang and replaced the original V6 engine with a big block V8 from, say, 1959, I could merrily cruise the roads 365 days a year and pollute to my heart's content as long as my new power-plant had all the emission controls that it came with in 1959, or in other words, nothing. But if a fuel sipping Mazda Miata owner swapped his or her original air breather for a cold air intake system (which improves combustion and lowers emissions) they'd be subject to a fine from the MOE.
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2009, 11:06:33 pm »

The madness has spread to other hobbies too.
I live on the river near Gananoque and mix some performance boating with my old car affliction.
Use of through-the-hull open exhausts (within 5 miles of shore) has been illegal for some time but recently is being enforced ---- with an absurd kicker in 2009.
The fine for open exhausts has been and remains $250 every time you get caught - OK by me - don't be loud where it will offend.
The OPP or RCMP kicker this year--- Fine for just having "silent choice" on a boat you are operating is $500.  ("Silent choice" is an optional system which allows you to direct exhaust flow quietly underwater through the props OR optionally through the hull.)  No matter if you are and have been operating quietly, as of 2009, if your boat has it, you're fined. (1960 and older granfathered)
Or you can be legal if you install external mufflers on the four pipes through the transom -- as long as you have crippled mechanically the "silent chioce" capability.  The external mufflers are about $800+ per and can be visually confirmed (coffee pot size) by binoculars from a distance so the police are having a field day raising money (I think) to justify their cushy water patrol jobs.
Related madness - a neighbour and his wife were fined for having open alcohol in a place other than their residence -- a glass of wine each about 100 feet in front of their cottage in a paddle boat!
My buddy was fined for not having a working flashlight on his pontoon boat.  Clearly not much room for discretionary officer decisions - no wonder no one wants to help a cop.
This MOE harassment has caused me to rethink two of my car projects - the Fiero will now get a massaged 1970 or older V8 (anyone looking for a 240 HP 3900 V8 with 6 miles on it?
And my '84 Super Sport will get its factory V8 "personalized" with smog stuff visually in place ...............
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87GT
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2009, 11:16:01 pm »

Meant to say  -  (anyone looking for a 240 HP 3900 V6 with 6 miles on it)?  - not a V8.

A thought on the constructive side re MOE - could we as an enthusiast group be documenting our concerns to MPP John Gerritson who I believe is the correct minister in this case?
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Gizmo
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« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2009, 06:58:37 pm »

Afternoon reading.... 

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/envision/scb/work/VEEU.htm

Quote
Ontario’s Vehicle Emissions Enforcement Unit (VEEU) was formed in 1998 to support the Drive Clean program by conducting province-wide roadside inspections of both heavy duty and light duty vehicles to ensure compliance with Ontario’s motor vehicle emission standards. The program uses a risk based approach in order to focus inspections on specific transportation sectors that present the greatest risk to air quality.

So how is it they can "blitz" car shows and target hot rods/classic cars when they clearly mention heavy duty and light duty vehicles?  Are performance rebuilt (etc..) vehicles that see 10K a season high risk?

Oh wait....they clearly don't have any idea what they are targeting....just $$$

Quote
When inspecting passenger cars, vans, pickup trucks and other light-duty vehicles, officers will give a vehicle a thorough visual check to ensure the emission components haven’t been tampered with.

Quote
VEEU inspections can occur anytime, anywhere in Ontario, on vehicles registered in Ontario or from out-of-province.

What about out of country?

Quote
If a vehicle fails testing or the emission control equipment has been altered or removed, officers can issue fines, Provincial Officer Orders, and seize vehicle licence plates.

Seize an out of country plate.....really!?


Just pissed off at how screwed this place is becoming!
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