Newbie Fiero wannabe

[netwise]

I have been doing a bit of reading of the forums (here and else where) and have some questions that might help other new Fiero people and will definitely help me.

1. In terms of service in the car like oil/filter changes, spark plug changes, what is easier a 3800sc or a 350LT1.

2, There have been a couple of mentions of the 84 Fiero being a model to perhaps avoid. Why is this?

3. What is the weight of the LTI (4 barrel) versus the 3800sc. Power to weight is perhaps more important than just power. More weight on the rear for handling has to be a bad thing.

4. Are there any years which are exempt from the emissions testing that are good for engine swapping.

5. Is any particular Fiero model year better than another for engine swapping.

6. Any particular year better for suspension Mods.

7. Any particular year the 3800sc was a better engine?

8. Would the Chevy LT1 be easier to plumb for exhaust?

9. Is a notch back easier to do engine transplants with?

10. what does 4T65E HD mean?




cheers

Barry
Ottawa

[dguy]

2, There have been a couple of mentions of the 84 Fiero being a model to perhaps avoid. Why is this?

The turn-off for some people is that from the instrument panel back to the tail lights, the 84's electronics are unique to that model year.  One of the biggest complaints is the location of C500, which is an electrical junction block in the engine compartment.  Its location in the 84 cars tends to get in the way of 60 and 90 degree Vee engine exhaust systems.  Personally I think that if you're going to swap out a drivetrain, relocating a bit of wiring shouldn't intimidate you. 

4. Are there any years which are exempt from the emissions testing that are good for engine swapping.

84 & 85 for sure; can't remember how many of the other years, if any, are exempt.  The easiest way to verify is to load up Drive Clean's web site, and start punching in model years.

5. Is any particular Fiero model year better than another for engine swapping.

Not really.

6. Any particular year better for suspension Mods.

In my opinion, no.  Some will say that the 88 suspension is better, but it also has unique components compared to the earlier years.  Whether it's a "better" suspension  for mainatining of modifying is subject to personal opinion.

7. Any particular year the 3800sc was a better engine?

Depends upon what you plan to do with it.  If you're going to rip the engine apart and rebuild it from the ground up, you can start with pretty much anything.  For example, I have a 300,000+ km '96 (L67 series 2) which is waiting to be...  attended to. 

BTW by unoficial law, you're required to pick on not buzz till its done and his lowly series 1.  That's about it though.   


I'm sure others will cover some of your other questions.  Or tell me that I'm out to lunch.  Or both!   

[aaron88]

3. What is the weight of the LTI (4 barrel) versus the 3800sc. Power to weight is perhaps more important than just power. More weight on the rear for handling has to be a bad thing.

Weight is an issue but you can correct handling characterisics by putting wider tires in the rear(will need new rims).

6. Any particular year better for suspension Mods.

Depends on what you want to do with the car.  In general just fix the loose rear end.

8. Would the Chevy LT1 be easier to plumb for exhaust?

too minor a detail to worry about.

9. Is a notch back easier to do engine transplants with?

no differance, except that it doesn't look as cool.

10. what does 4T65E HD mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_4T65-E_transmission


Aaron

.

[FieroBUZZ]

1. In terms of service in the car like oil/filter changes, spark plug changes, what is easier a 3800sc or a 350LT1.

Probably about the same, but the Fiero is quite easy to drop the cradle for major work.  The entire drivetrain comes out as a unit.  You might also make an access panel in the cabin wall if you are so inclined, or use a remote oil filter, yada, yada.

2, There have been a couple of mentions of the 84 Fiero being a model to perhaps avoid. Why is this?

Aside from the Indy model, 84's were only available as a bumperpad coupe with a 4 cylinder.  The electrical system is different as mentioned.  The cradle is slightly different and has no provision for v-6 mounts.  Fuel pump, instruments, etc are all made for the 4. 

If you are swapping, then most of these will be addressed in any case.  The 84 tranny case is slightly weaker and the 4 speed is available as a 4:10 final drive or a rare 3:32 option.  The 3:32 is popular with the v-8 crowd.

84 models are far easier to find cheap..................

3. What is the weight of the LTI (4 barrel) versus the 3800sc. Power to weight is perhaps more important than just power. More weight on the rear for handling has to be a bad thing.

Don't know, but I doubt the difference is enough to worry about.  Pick the motor you prefer.

4. Are there any years which are exempt from the emissions testing that are good for engine swapping.

My 86 is as well and 87 should be next year.  The 88 models will not become exempt as I read the rules.

5. Is any particular Fiero model year better than another for engine swapping.

6. Any particular year better for suspension Mods.

88's have an upgraded suspension.  Noticeably different in stock comparisons.  However any 20 year old suspension will need attending and upgrading the earlier stuff makes it fine for regular use.  The biggest point is the 88's have a solid mount cradle.  Poly or aluminum makes a big difference in earlier cars.  You can even weld   plate in and bolt the early cradle directly if you wish.

7. Any particular year the 3800sc was a better engine?

Not rebuilding, obviously as new as practical.  The GTP has more useful pulley setups and pcm AFAIK.  Series 1 is cool     Feel free to pick on me, everyone does and it's good for the soul.   

8. Would the Chevy LT1 be easier to plumb for exhaust?

Shouldn't be a big issue either way in deciding which to use.  It's just something that has to be done and consists of the same parts.

9. Is a notch back easier to do engine transplants with?

No difference, except it looks more cool than a fatback   

10. what does 4T65E HD mean?

GM auto tranny names are pretty standard

4       # of forward speeds
T        Transverse  (also L Longitudinal)
65      Model
E        Electronically controlled shift
HD     Heavy Duty (dguy thinks it stands for Hardly Davidson    )

You see that you'll get lots of different opinions.  The best bet is to decide what you want, how much $$ you want to throw at it and go from there.

The important part is to get as good a donor as possible as a thrashed car will need just about everything replaced.  At least the parts you'll use..... Look for rust,  rust,   rust   and maybe lots of rust!!!!!

Gary

[FieroBUZZ]

Also big time HP breaks tranny parts.  Unless you want to beef it up a lot, pick a nice middle of the road power range that you can use.

Also the parts are pretty much interchangeable.  You can build a Fastback from a notchie very easily and not have it show the insurance man a GT model, just as a base coupe.

[2ML67]

84's only problem when doing an engine swap is one electrical connector which can easily be moved. Weight the 3800SC is within 60lbs of the Fiero 2.8 V6 its the 4T65E tranny that is heavy but it is also one of the only tranny's strong enough to hold up to the 3800SC once modded. If going with a V8 I would reccomend getting an all aluminum block as the cast iron ones are too heavy. The best V8 in my opinion all though expensive would be the new 5.3l one. My personal opinion is go with the 3800SC if you want more power do a cam instal with a few other mods and you are driving an 11 second car. V8's can be made or even come more powerfull but it all boils down to just how much power you can actually use before you blow the tranny or an axle shaft. With 3800SC's just mat the pedal and hang on with strong V8's mat the pedal and you will need a tow truck or carry lots of spare parts. If going with a 3800SC the newer the better 96 up are series II but as they get newer there is differences. I would try and get a 1999 or newer and either get the 4T65E HD tranny with it or a strong Getrag 5 speed. Dan

[netwise]

Thank you all for your responses to date. 

I have for many years driven both 4 speed (driven and drag raced) and auto trans cars. I have recently found that on the street  an auto is faster. Very few people, with the exception of those on this forum  can power shift a 4 speed.
Consequently they lose allot of ground shifting while the auto just keeps on pulling.


Is there a good 4 speed auto that will take the power of 12 second 3800sc? If I decide on an auto does a 3800 work out better than an V8 for installation purposes?


I saw this article on a mounting a big V8 longitudinally 
http://www.fieroaddiction.com/SBCLa.html and this bit in the article  "By rotating the entire engine/trans 180 deg so that the pulleys are at the back of the car you can get a lot more of the weight in front of the rear axle"

Anyone seen one like this?
Perhaps it's a idea not worth the effort?


Thanks again

cheers

Barry

[2ML67]

The 3800SC with its 4T65E HD tranny and the proper mods can easily run in the 12's with little or no worries of drive train failure. Problem with longitudinally mounted V8's is the rear of the car has to be fully redone including the body for clearance. Problem with trying to speed shift a Fiero is the many feet of shifter cable, its not like the older rear wheel drive cars where the shifter was mopunted right on the tranny. Dan

[FieroBUZZ]

You can use the big heavy tranny out of old Toronados etc, for the longitudinal setup. I don't think you need to extend the wheelbase, but you will lose the trunk.  You'll also need to fab some bracing.

This is evidently not as 'bad handling' as one might think as the setup leaves the motor/tranny still around the axle.

The 4T65E HD is likely the best transverse choice.  It can be beefed up to handle a good bit of abuse. See clubgp.com for some links.

Like Dan said, the cable shift limits the manuals on speed shifting.  However for cruising the highways the manuals are nice.