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[fiero308]

well Don that would be a very good checklist for Jer to go thru; with a VOLT meter, not just a visual or an ohmmeter.

Look for POWER, not just a connection.
Somewhere along the line there has to be 12-13 volts!!! That will be your starting point...........

[fiero308]

can you post any pix?
like with the dist cap off; an overall pic and a few closeups.

if you have power TO the distributor but nothing coming out then it is something in there it would look like.

I guess to ask the (sorry) obvious. Is it possible the rotor cap is (missing, even ?) broken, the tab is snapped off and it isn't turning?  I actually had a 'bad' rotor cap once that was so far off it struck the tower connections inside the distributor cap and you could feel it hit them; one of them to the point that it broke off plastic around the electrical connection!!! 

And the gear on the bottom (held by a roll pin) of the dist shaft may be broken and thus the shaft isn't turning?
I have never heard of this happening but you might just take the cap off and crank the car to make sure the shaft IS turning.  Eliminate even the stupid stuff that way.

But it sounds like the distributor at this point now. That narrows it down.

[fiero308]

here is a thread on PFF
it may be of use in case you haven't seen it yet.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/065112.html

[fiero308]

but it DID run after the swap, is that right?
at one point?
and then for no apparent reason, it stopped?
Nothing changed in the interim?


Is that right?

[dguy]

Well I took pictures but I don't know how to post them. Even got the darn pictures in this computor just don't know how to post them yet.

When you reply-to or start a new message, you should see a link below the box you type in which says "Additional Options".  Click on it, and a section with a few more options will appear which includes the option to attach up to two files to your message.   (see pic below)

Anyhow -   I have found that I have a dead short in this car. I unhooked the battery - grounded the continuty tester to the body and went thought connections and wires again found one wire going to the TBS sensor had continuty thought the body with the battery disconnected. I am assuming that this is a no go situation. 

Not sure what you mean by "TBS sensor".     If you're talking about the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) though, one of the three wires connecting to it should be grounded at all times regardless of whether the battery is connected or not.

*Side note: Using an ohm meter or continuity tester on an ECM-related circuit while the ECM is connected is generally not a good idea.  If the ECM is still connected, you should be checking for voltage only.  Resistance and/or continuity checks with the ECM still connected run the risk of damaging the ECM (ohm meters and/or continuity testers work by applying a voltage to a circuit--apply the wrong voltage or polarity to the wrong place, and you might hurt something).


Let's go way back to the basics for a moment.  Take the distributor cap off, and have someone else crank the engine while you watch for movement of the distributor rotor & shaft.

[aaron88]

Let's go way back to the basics for a moment.  Take the distributor cap off, and have someone else crank the engine while you watch for movement of the distributor rotor & shaft.

This is usually one of the first things to check when a car just stops running for no good reason (timing belt or in this case timing chain).  I was assuming that had already been done.  So....was it Jer?

You sould also check your timing in case the chain skiped or something (bad tensioner), anything wrong with the timing chain will be really bad news by the way.


Aaron

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[aaron88]

There is a way but it isn’t exact.  If you turn the crank until you can see that one of the pistons are at "top dead center" (look through the opening for the spark plug). The rotor on the distributor should be pointing directly at the wire corresponding to that cylinder.  Even if it’s off a bit the motor should start.

If your rotor turns with the motor, then this isn’t likely your problem.

Aaron

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[fiero308]

Damn intermittent problems. They are the WORST.

If your car DID still start and run intermittently, but now has completely quit, then I would hazard to guess that it isn't timing or the distributor (and you have checked the dist already).

It has got to be a bad connection or device. And since you have followed power TO the distributor but are getting nothing AFTER it, then something is up there.  At this point my limited knowledge of thingsfiero pretty much comes to a halt. I just have a general knowledge of cars after this.

My understanding AT THIS POINT is that you have power TO the distributor _ ACTUAL MEASURED VOLTAGE, RIGHT? PLEASE CONFIRM THAT.  If you have simply done a continuity test (ohm meter) then please be specific about this.

You are NOT getting ANY spark from any plugs (make sure it is well grounded!!) when you crank the engine - PLEASE CONFIRM 

you might as well pull all the plugs for now to make cranking easier on everything; ground them all so that they WILL spark......... and that might help you too. It is easy to miss a spark, esp in daylight.....

You found an unusual ground - but not sure what it was at this point.... could you describe what it was (again if I just missed it?) is that fixed now?

The car WILL crank over very well; no problem there. IS THAT RIGHT?

So to sum up, spark seems to be the issue and it is really clearly tracked down to the distributor, with at least 12VDC power going in and nothing coming out. Is that right?

just trying to keep a clear picture going here. 

I am now thinking about the classic grounding problems that people run into with these cars.  You can't have too much grounding and it is a very common issue.
Run more grounds. Make sure there is a really good one NEAR the distributor. Make sure there is a REALLY good one to BOTH heads (for spark grounding); steel is a surprisingly reluctant (pun) conductor; especially when it has a chance to oxidize a LITTLE bit. Or even a washer (under an elect connectiorn) turning a bit or getting the wrong kind of grease (like engine grease or oil!) on it.

So I am thinking about this direction now.  How about the battery too? You can't have TOO much grounding. Run an additional strap from the battery to the block and/or heads. Easy to do, cheap, and can't hurt..........

But answer the questions above if you would so the fierosmart guys can get their thinking caps going.......

[2ML67]

Yes the ECM can stop from getting a spark and welding with the battery connected in rare cases will fry the ECM. Basically the coil has plus 12 volts all the time its the groung that is switched off and on timed with the engine that makes her all work. As I offered before but as you pointed out I do not know where you live, I have an ECM from a 1987 GT that ran but had a bottom end knock due to the 10MM 1/4" drive socket I found mangled in the oil pan. I have the distributor that is corroded but also works. You could borrow these to try and see if they fix your problem. I live near Belleville Ont if that is close enough to be of any help. Dan

[aaron88]

Now I  have a question.. Is it possible ? -  That the ECM
could be bad. Would this cause the car  not to fire??

Yes the ECM could cause your car not to fire.

Another Question - Is it possible that I could have damaged the ECM by having exhaust pipes welded on by a repair shop. And not disconnecting the battery and or the computer before welding?

Absolutely possible, especially with small vehicles and vehicles with bad grounds.  Because of this well known fact, here at my work all trucks have the computers completely disconnected and the battery terminals removed before any welding occurs on the body.  However just because the computer wasn’t disconnected when the exhaust was welded doesn’t mean that, that is the source of your problem.  I would however try really hard to find a computer to plug in and see if that is your problem.

Aaron

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[dguy]

WTF?

When I last checked this thread on the 22nd, there were at least three posts from Jer in here.  Now I only see the original (first) one?   

[fiero308]

hmmmmmm
wonder if that happened more than once?
I thought i had read stuff then went back and couldn't find it. Of course, I just attributed that to my interesting memory.....LOL

[aaron88]

It's more like this

[jer]

Aaaahhh Guys,   

It's more like I went in and cleaned some of them out.  Just to much (s---.)  to keep reading . Sorry The (D---  ) car is still not running. I have to wait for some monies to get the Computer when I get a new computer I will let you know if this piece of car starts.
jer

[fiero308]

well Jer
if you take away the history you will really limit what input you can get back...