Ottawa Fiero Club Forum

I interpret the new rules for hot rod as i would have to meet 87 fiero emissions  and have all visual emission equipment that came with swap motor.

http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environment/en/category/drive_clean/STDPROD_098201.html#1999

So all L67 and other engine swapped Fieros now have to have a cat unless you did the swap before 1999. That sucks but then again a hollowed out cat still looks good enough as long as the car still passes the test which most do any ways with newer engines in them. Dan

But will I be able to pass the test if I'm running the xpz cam?

But what does it need to meet?

The test for my 84 4 cyl or the specs of my 2002 super charged?


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http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/environment/en/category/drive_clean/STDPROD_098206.html

Claude go here it will give you many scenarios.

From my understanding an 84 Fiero with a 2002 engine would have to pass 84 levels. but it does not matter as only 88 and newer cars still have to deal with annual emissions tests. As for road side problems a faked CAT or hollow CAT will get past any nosy inspectors.
As far as passing with the XPZ cam I am not sure it would depend on the tune and what other mods are involved.
For me annual emissions tests are no longer a problem, will explain later. Dan

My fiero is an 87, I don't need a test every 2 years. I'm not worried about passing visual just worried about passing an emission test if they ask me to get one. An inspector from the ministry of environment can ask any year car to get an e-test.

I think this speaks a lot about both the luck and un-lucky aspects of my swap.  I have to have tests done every two years because I have an 88 but because my motor is a 1998 I also test only as a 1980's hot rod.  That means no CAT or emissions equipment required of any kind.  I have not failed a test yet.  I have no CAT and no EGR.

It looks like everyone else might have a problem if they get road side tested.  If you do and you fail they must allow you the opportunity to have a re-test at a later date.  Emissions is easy to pass if you have foreknowledge of a test.

Also it should be noted that I recently had  my daily driver tested without a CAT attached and although the emissions report does not show it, the equipment does test for all sorts of particles that don't show up on the report that they give you (such as platinum compounds).  Although my car was running clean the equipment kicked me out of the test all three times the guy tried to test.  The equipment simply told the guys that the probe wasn't in the exhaust.  They told me that there must be an exhaust leak, and to fix it before I come back.  This was never a problem when I had my Fiero tested as a 1980's hot rod.  Anyway, later that day I put my CAT back on and tested way under the limits (the new test - two speed idle).


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From what I read and understood from the link I posted above If I was to get pulled over by a cop that is with a ministry of environment officer, he will check for cats, egr, pvc and evap. Each one not there is I believe a 300 hundred dollar ticket. They have done this on Merivale down from Meadowlands on a busy Friday night.

The second link shows scenarios that would happen with a swap motor.

I have had a few 3800SC swapped Fieros pass e-tests with out a CAT and even had my old one road side tested with no CAT and it passed. They did not look for a CAT because it passed and the guy could not get a good enough look under the car to see if it was there. Plus I refused to open the deck lid due to the trunk being there and my right to privacy unless they have just cause to force me which they agreed they did not.
I already have a nice CAT hollowed out for my next build just to be safe though. Dan

I have no issues with the emissions equipment, i plan on putting all emissions back on including cat. I have an issue with the waste of money for nothing on stupid testing.

Dan, did you connect evap when you did the swap?

Yes the EVAP is connected using the stock Fiero system with the Fiero charcoal canister as I was told years ago by the MTO that the EVAP system was body related not engine due to the fuel tank. Dan

Here is also something you should make sure you say clearly if you do get asked for a search.  You say "I do not consent to any searches".  The whole thing is a scam.  They say something to you like "open the hood" and if you do; that's considered by law as your consent for the officer to search what he can then see.  That's why they don't just go ahead and do it themselves.

Dan; were you tested as stock or hot rod?

Thanks Dan, I'm trying to read and learn all I can about the emissions on an l67. I'm doing a gen 5 blower and will have to change some stuff around. If you have any information that would help and or diagrams I would appreciate it, thanks.

From my understanding they can push for you to open the hood but in the case of a Fiero because opening the deck lid exposes what is in the trunk you have more rights to refuse due to privacy of what is in your trunk. To make us open the trunk they then have to have just cause for more then just emissions violations.
Be careful though at this point the cop if he is a prick can have your car towed in for a full inspection where they will tear it apart searching and claim he thought there might be drugs or some thing.
The road side test was my suggestion to prove my car passes and solve the problem.
The road side test they did on me was for a stock 84 4 cyl Fiero because i told them the car had a stock GM engine still int it, which it sort of did.
Of course driving away after passing the test with flying colours my Daughter spoke up and said but Daddy the engine is not stock to which I said quiet till we are further away. Dan

I re-read the MTO stuff.  It seems that the MTO goes by the year of the VIN only.  So all Fiero's no matter the year if registered as a hot rod do not require any emissions equipment.  But when I went to MTO they told me there wasn't anything in their system to identify a Hot Rod other than amending the number of cylinders.  I'll have to do more research on that.

As for getting towed for a complete search, they still need probable cause.  Especially for drugs.  I heard about some of this sort of thing happening in Toronto and the owners sued and won.  Which can be handy if you need a few bucks to get the next upgrade and as long as you don't mind putting your car back together multiple times.  In some cases it was the insurance company that sued because the owner didn't technically own the car, they did.

So the long and short of it is.  If this sort of thing happens to you.  Get out your camera phone and start recording, and make sure you get it on record that you did not agree to any searches.

Here is another good tip.  Have your car E-tested even if you don't have to and keep a copy in your car as I do.  That way if it ever comes up you can show them the test results that show your vin and the fact that it was tested as a hot rod and passed.  That should ensure they have no probable cause.

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 >:D



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On a side note, from what I have been told, the new machines are only equipped to handle obd2 and later, any vehicle with 3 or more error codes stored is an auto fail 75% failure rate at his shop ATM. As for hollowed cats, I've been told( not verified) that they can now tell by temp readings.

And now with the systems having camera surveillance the mechanics can't help you out even if inclined.

I can get an emissions guy to chime in if there's interest.

They do OBD 1 on the same machine they just don't plug in.  I know because that is how they did my test on my 91 integra.

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Probably not only temp readings.  If it's an OBD 2 car and they are plugged in, they can tell by the two O2 readings.

Big problem with OBD II if they plug in say a 88 Fiero 3800SC swapped car they will they find things like the second O2 not there and the codes turned off or with the codes off will it not show up. Just how deep does the scan go of the OBD II system during the e-test.
I turn off things like EVAP codes because I use the Fiero EVAP system and for manual tranny swaps a lot of changes are made to the program. Or is this just a problem for non hot rod classed cars. Dan

Yes and yes Aaron. They can plug in to obd1 cars but can't check for codes etc as they don't have a hard memory like obd2. I would assume that if you throw a code during the test its a fail tho.

Dan, if as the code reads they go by vin, I'd assume us swapped guys will have no end of issues as we have obd2 plugs in an obd1 car.  Then again how many etest techs will know where to find the stock plug?
Not exactly a standard location for it.

I think I'll make a call and ask

Ok, here is the policy being followed as it applies for us
84-87 Fieros. Obd1 test, car loaded to 2500rpm
84-87 modified Fieros, fall under hot rod class, again load tested at 2500rpm. They have to pass the emissions standards for the year of the motor and are given more latitude as they are hot rods.

If you need detailed information and a "how to" prep your car to pass;
Talk to
Alex
Stagra automotive in Greely
613-821-0238

They specialize in rods and race cars in addition to the standard daily mechanics, that's to say they know all the tricks to get a modified vehicle through emissions.

 

Okay I'm a bit confused as to the year of motor answer.  Have they changed that part of the E-test.  I have always had my car tested as 1980 hot rod, never by the motor year.  Also there is no way they can plug into my Holley connector.

On that note why couldn't you just say that there is no port for them to plug into anyway.  The test is for emissions not computer compliance anyway.

Now I'm just more confused.

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The test is done on the year of original motor not the year of the swapped motor. This is for swaps done after 1999. This is what it says in the link I provided in the beginning of this thread.

I read that.  The MTO info used wording that suggested that they use the year of the swap, but that isn't what the guys doing the testing are using.  They are using the original car VIN or a generic 1980 standard.

So I guess the question is: What is it they are supposed to use?  The more the government puts the squeeze on, the more shops are going to have to do what they are supposed to.

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well as I stated, direct from the shop and the instructions given to the tech doing the e-test, given a swapped motor, they are forced to use the specs under the hot rod class,
example:
a 1982 chevy 1500 with a gas motor gets swapped for a 4bt cummins diesel( 4cyl version of a cummins found in frito lays grummans delivery truck)...
kinda hard to follow the original vehicle emissions.  the specs for the motor swapped in are used. 
 

I asked specifically what would happen with my 3800 fiero.
I was told that as they cant plug into the non existent ob1 port, they will follow the base line specs for the motor, not the car.  those specs are used in conjunction with a "bonus" for emission allowances for the hot rod class.  I was told that as long as I have a well running and tuned motor there should be no issues.

I don't imagine that its worth getting into a debate over oft times non specific government regulations, and as such I suggest that if anyone wants the details as they were explained to the people doing the tests, contact a knowledgeable garage and ask.


in passing, I was told that the "bonus" for JDM cars makes it next to impossible for the car to fail....

in the end I was assured that there would be no mass failing of modified vehicles. I'd assume the ensuing revolt and underground race/mod scene is more than the MOT wants to deal with..



no flaming intended and good luck to anyone unlucky enough to have to go through with an etest in the near future.

now I'm off to a heavy truck facility to have my cummins tested...
 

I just talked to a friend who does e tests at one of those oil change facilities and he told me that they don't plug into obd1 cars and only plug into 98 and newer vehicles.

FYI just plated my car last week, and no etest required thay said , and Kevin's old car has not been on the road for years?